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Thread: What was good, what was bad

  1. #41
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    I will say this, a good majority of people will respond to security/safety just by being asked. There's no need to be forceful and not only making it acceptable, but stressing that it is to others, just makes matters worse. If you tell me once and I don't listen, then fine, raise your voice a bit, but don't come at me guns blazing if I'm unknowingly doing something wrong. Plus, it's good that they're enforcing the rules, but I seriously question what rules they were enforcing with numerous things, like yelling at people during Chess to sit down because they were "interrupting the panel" (which none were...in fact, she was saying that to people that were HELPING me run the panel, no one was even close to being in the way, and I can handle my own panels).

    As far as the pushing, I'm pretty sure that's assault. That should never happen, and if it's done to the wrong person you could see a shitstorm. Your security/safety team should NEVER put their hands on someone unless absolutely necessary, and there better be probable cause or proof for the need to use physical force.

    Cons are supposed to be relaxing and entertaining for people. Hearing safety yell about the slightest of things doesn't help that, and the con goers are the reason you're able to run a con. They pay for badges, which pay to keep everything else afloat. Treat most people there with respect and they'll do the same. If I'm not supposed to be sitting against a certain wall, don't scream at me to move, just tell me "hey, there's an area over there to sit if you need to relax, we're trying to keep the hallways clear, can you please move over there?" I'd have happily moved. Instead I got "GET UP, YOU CAN'T SIT THERE!" screamed at me and while it got me up, it also put me in a foul mood for a bit after that.

    I get these people are volunteers but the bad apples need to be removed from their position if they're causing issues. If a safety team member EVER puts their hands on a con goer and uses physical force for anything but a true safety/security reason (I'm talking good enough to call the cops for), they should be immediately removed. It's harsh, but not as harsh as using unnecessary force, and it should NEVER be acceptable.

    Only other thing is, make sure that safety works with panel operators instead of just going off their own ideas. Safety got onto a few people during the Chess panel for doing things I asked participants to do (like standing off to the side to be chosen as pieces) and finally backed down after I told them I was doing it purposefully. It wasn't a safety or security issue, they weren't in anyone's way, and sure as hell weren't blocking anything to become a fire hazard, but a green shirt started yelling at them with no prior warning to go sit back down.

  2. #42
    Author/Blogger/Podcaster randomizer9's Avatar
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    Way to miss the point, Proz: its not a matter of safety people being loud, its a matter of them being RUDE. Feel free to keep your head in the sand all you want, but it is an issue. Sadly, I don't have an answer for the problem (maybe more people working shorter shifts?) but when safety people feel the need to apologize to everyone for being jerks, as some have done in some of these threads, then there just might be an issue. Just sayin'
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomizer9 View Post
    Way to miss the point, Proz: its not a matter of safety people being loud, its a matter of them being RUDE. Feel free to keep your head in the sand all you want, but it is an issue. Sadly, I don't have an answer for the problem (maybe more people working shorter shifts?) but when safety people feel the need to apologize to everyone for being jerks, as some have done in some of these threads, then there just might be an issue. Just sayin'
    Just to piggyback on this Friday night the main safety guy (Sven I guess) came to the music game room and talked to the door man then waved me over. He said that the door guy didn't know but we need to control the line. There was indeed a line in front of the music game room, but that was for Conference room 16. He emphasized that no one can be blocking the fire escape doors or the place will be shut down by the fire marshal. I said ok, but that's not my line. He raised his voice and said "This is your line, you need to control it!" I told him to look the room. It was then he realized that there was only about 10 people in there and the line was not for people to come in the room. He did apologize and remarked that it made him look like an ass, so no harm done, but really wasn't necessary here.

  4. #44
    ZOMBIE Panelist RedeadDie's Avatar
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    I for one had no issues what so ever with con security at all except for that one security person that was at the door Saturday night during the Cosplay Dating Game. The line for the card check wasn't moving along, he was taking his time, and kept moving/disapearing on us. I ended up to where I had to check IDs and it ended up going a lot faster. This guy even talked loudly in the room during the Dating Show and I had to tell him not to do so during the show and to talk outside of the room if needed. He also seemed really stressed out and freaked out which just made me stressed out.

    It was so bad that I had to go to the security desk, DURING my panel (luckily I had co-hosts to back up in case I had to leave the room) and ask for a replacement at the door. The desk said I'd get one, but they didn't come right away. Eventually, the AC turned off, the speakers went out, and I still had the same security guy at the door. I have never had this happen at a dating game and the only thing I thought of was to run to the con-opps room. I actually ran into Proz who saved the day for us! Thank you Proz! He even helped to get me a new person to man the door.

    Other than that, I didn't have anything overly bad at the con. As for the con security I had no issues with them and I thought they all did their job excellently except for that one security worker at the door of the Social Room on Saturday night.

    Also, PROPS TO JOEY! He helped me greatly before my Dating Game started and all through Sunday as well! He was the Super staffer hero of the Ouran High Host Club. He helped get us nice water for our guests, keep the lines in order, announce things to the con-goers in line, helped with set-up, and so much more. Joey is an amazing staffer, way to go Joey!
    San-Japan 7
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  5. #45
    I understand you might skirt the issue of Safety staff being Rude, Proz. But you have to remember, we're the attendees. If we keep bringing an issue up again and again then please take it seriously and at least pretend to care. I know SJ staff even on the top brass just have this attitude of "My people can do no wrong" And you guys just dismiss or argue our complaints. You should just be listening and taking note at this point, not trying to shoot down everyone.

    You might want to tell everyone that wasn't satisfied on this forum, Well, if you don't like it, then don't come back next year. These people are just the most vocal of the 6,890 people at your show. Sure, you may bend over backwards for "Guests" and such. But the 6,890 people buying your tickets, standing in your lines, filling your venue's seats, Made you. You wouldn't have lips to kiss Nabeshin's @ss if we didn't support you 4 years straight. A lot of new people are on board and they are bringing genuine concerns.

    Instead of "This person is going to be loud.." how about.
    "We're not trying to be RUDE, but be a aware of our various safety concerns/issues. We will be reminding you (REPEATEDLY) throughout the day. Please Bear with us."

  6. #46
    The Chibi ChibiBritt's Avatar
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    Oh green shirts...fun times. Most of them that are super awesome people, but there will always be a few bad apples to ruin things.


    Really I think Sven is just not good with general public interaction. I have seen him deal with drunks and *******s causing major problems, and that was great. I also understand he's great with dealing with police, EMS, and other professionals. However, he just can't handle your normal con-goer well. Once he goes into military mode, it's just not pretty. I mean I would be willing to guess a majority of the attendees were under 18. Getting reamed by a military-esque guy just isn't cool. They don't know how to handle it as well, and while Sven might not mean to, it's nearly always going to be seen as an attack. Ideally I would say he should try to understand them at a psychological level. I don't know if he has kids, but I think if he did, he would be able to understand them a little better.

    I'm not going to defend the things Sven did or does. He tends to go a little overboard sometimes. Ok more like a lot of the time. To be honest he can really be a huge jackass. There is no doubt about that. However, I think his skills would be better put to use behind the scenes working with the professionals.

  7. #47
    The Bald Voice From Above Proz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiBritt View Post
    I don't know if he has kids, but I think if he did, he would be able to understand them a little better.


    He actually has a young daughter from a previous marriage. I met his ex-wife at SJ1.5.


    I'm not going to defend the things Sven did or does. He tends to go a little overboard sometimes. Ok more like a lot of the time. To be honest he can really be a huge jackass. There is no doubt about that. However, I think his skills would be better put to use behind the scenes working with the professionals.
    That's the plan.


    People are thinking that I'm being naive on Safety. I'm not denying that at some point that Safety was rude to attendees or did inappropriate actions. I know another certain convention for years had the same problem with their safety personnel. Were their bad apples? Probably. It mucks up a good experience.

    It is an extremely stressful job and it doesn't help having a lot of loud music, plenty of chattering while fire marshals are watching over us closely (it is going to be much worse next year at the Convention Center on enforcement).

    It is one of the hardest volunteer positions with the least amount of appreciation. If the attendees were fully compliant on the rules too then we'd all be mellow. If posting signs and posting the rules in the program book were good enough, they wouldn't have to use their raised voices but we've learned that the majority don't pay attention. It gets quite blurred on what is doing their job to enforce the rules and what is conveyed as being rude.

    Another I've been reading is that we're allowing drunks on the floor. The whole reason that Safety staff wears eye-gaudy shirts is that when you spot people who've had too much to drink and doing inappropriate actions that you need to flag them down so they can be removed them from the floor. We had police officers on-site too. The drunks don't exactly have large red marks that appear on them to allow us to spot them. You have to help us too at the convention.
    In Charge Of The Chaos

  8. #48
    The Chibi ChibiBritt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proz View Post
    [/COLOR]

    He actually has a young daughter from a previous marriage. I met his ex-wife at SJ1.5.



    Oh man wait till the teenage years! XD



    [COLOR=black]

    That's the plan.


    People are thinking that I'm being naive on Safety. I'm not denying that at some point that Safety was rude to attendees or did inappropriate actions. I know another certain convention for years had the same problem with their safety personnel. Were their bad apples? Probably. It mucks up a good experience.

    It is an extremely stressful job and it doesn't help having a lot of loud music, plenty of chattering while fire marshals are watching over us closely (it is going to be much worse next year at the Convention Center on enforcement).

    It is one of the hardest volunteer positions with the least amount of appreciation. If the attendees were fully compliant on the rules too then we'd all be mellow. If posting signs and posting the rules in the program book were good enough, they wouldn't have to use their raised voices but we've learned that the majority don't pay attention. It gets quite blurred on what is doing their job to enforce the rules and what is conveyed as being rude.

    Another I've been reading is that we're allowing drunks on the floor. The whole reason that Safety staff wears eye-gaudy shirts is that when you spot people who've had too much to drink and doing inappropriate actions that you need to flag them down so they can be removed them from the floor. We had police officers on-site too. The drunks don't exactly have large red marks that appear on them to allow us to spot them. You have to help us too at the convention.
    I appreciate the easy to recognize shirts myself. I think they are a great idea.

    I'm not sure if it's even feasible or if it would even help, but what about looking into getting megaphones? It might help with any yelling and such. I know lots of people when they raise their voice they can sound angry and mean and don't even realize it. It wasn't even their intention, it's just how their voice happens to work when projecting.


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiBritt View Post
    I appreciate the easy to recognize shirts myself. I think they are a great idea.

    I'm not sure if it's even feasible or if it would even help, but what about looking into getting megaphones? It might help with any yelling and such. I know lots of people when they raise their voice they can sound angry and mean and don't even realize it. It wasn't even their intention, it's just how their voice happens to work when projecting.

    im sorry but i dont think megaphones would be a good idea. imagine more than one volunteer yelling into a megaphone at the same time and the level of noise escalates to an annoying level for everyone

  10. #50
    The Bald Voice From Above Proz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiBritt View Post
    I appreciate the easy to recognize shirts myself. I think they are a great idea.

    I'm not sure if it's even feasible or if it would even help, but what about looking into getting megaphones? It might help with any yelling and such. I know lots of people when they raise their voice they can sound angry and mean and don't even realize it. It wasn't even their intention, it's just how their voice happens to work when projecting.

    We actually had 5 megaphones and Safety had all of them. Maybe need to get 20 of them?
    In Charge Of The Chaos

  11. #51
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    Something to keep in mind, this isn't a prison, you don't need to keep the peace through intimidation and yelling. People are either working for the con or have paid to be there, treat them with respect. Ask, and be nice, before you start yelling. There is no reason to get loud unless it's too noisy to hear. If I'm on a wall in a non-crowded area and you want me to move, inform me that I can't sit in that area and ask if I would move. I'd get up and go. Yelling, intimidation, and so on...that should never come into play until someone is blatantly and purposely breaking the rules or if there is a true safety hazard. If you can't stand the heat of being on security, don't be on security. Most people do it for the free badge, and tend to enjoy the "power" that comes with the position, but that doesn't give anyone any right to be disrespectful towards con-goers.

    One last thing, I will repeat this, there were a few incidents of physical force used. This needs to stop immediately. If a safety staff member ever puts their hands on me, my fiance, or anyone else with me ever again and it's completely unwarranted, I will find a TRUE member of security (i.e. the police in the building) and inform them that we were wrongfully assaulted. You have no business putting your hands on me, especially when I pose no immediate threat and have done little if anything wrong. I'm tired of cons letting people get away with this. If your safety can't keep from using physical force, fire them and blacklist them from ever working for your con again. If they can't do the job they signed up for, and do it respectfully, then they shouldn't be given the power, the free badge, and position.

  12. #52
    Dezzy's rabid badger ezio auditore da firenze's Avatar
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    Angry not getting on the bandwaggon

    I gotta say I back proz on all this, I mean sure some of the staff were a little rude, but attempt to keep in mind how many people they had to safely corral ( I personally watched them diffuse a few situations that could have otherwise caused big problems), of course there will be small kinks in the flow of things(sh*t happens), but I was still impressed with how well things flowed considering the number of people hyped up on sugar running around the con. Call me a kiss-ass if you want, but I would like to see someone pull a con better than the SJ staff.
    -When I said "deadly neurotoxin," the "deadly" was in massive sarcasm quotes. I could take a bath in this stuff. Put it on cereal, rub it right into my eyes... honestly, it's not deadly at all... to *me*. You, on the other hand, are going to find its deadliness... a lot less funny. - GlaDOS, Portal

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  13. #53
    CospPopProductions Member Valizougon Kick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proz View Post
    I said this here before the con even began:

    [SIZE=4]We are not going to be at the Marriott anymore. We are picking up nearly double the space at the Convention Center & Grand Hyatt.
    indeed i was aware and am really exited for it : D!
    i was just emphasizing that it wasn't the staff's fault but that it was also saddening to not be let in

    not throwing blame or anything just telling you of my experience D:

  14. #54
    Past 10 Posts Catwoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrex View Post
    One huge thing you have to remember is, THERE ARE FIRE HAZARDS. With that many people in one area, you do have to keep the halls clear. I was NOT a volunteer and I understand that. They are moving to a bigger location next year, so hopefully it wont be an issue next year, but I don't think it's the security's fault. The Fire Marshall was on every ones butts, so they had to keep them happy in order to keep the con going. Sound like reason enough for them being stressed? (ps. not trying to sound rude, just wanted to put all that out there for people to keep in mind about the hall ways)
    Not a problem. And, as always, it also depends on the person; each member of the security was different (obviously) and would act accordingly. Not all of them would be rude, but I, personally, seemed to only run into the rude ones :/

  15. #55
    Past 10 Posts Catwoman's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by thephoenix View Post
    I will say this, a good majority of people will respond to security/safety just by being asked. There's no need to be forceful and not only making it acceptable, but stressing that it is to others, just makes matters worse. If you tell me once and I don't listen, then fine, raise your voice a bit, but don't come at me guns blazing if I'm unknowingly doing something wrong. Plus, it's good that they're enforcing the rules, but I seriously question what rules they were enforcing with numerous things, like yelling at people during Chess to sit down because they were "interrupting the panel" (which none were...in fact, she was saying that to people that were HELPING me run the panel, no one was even close to being in the way, and I can handle my own panels).

    As far as the pushing, I'm pretty sure that's assault. That should never happen, and if it's done to the wrong person you could see a shitstorm. Your security/safety team should NEVER put their hands on someone unless absolutely necessary, and there better be probable cause or proof for the need to use physical force.

    Cons are supposed to be relaxing and entertaining for people. Hearing safety yell about the slightest of things doesn't help that, and the con goers are the reason you're able to run a con. They pay for badges, which pay to keep everything else afloat. Treat most people there with respect and they'll do the same. If I'm not supposed to be sitting against a certain wall, don't scream at me to move, just tell me "hey, there's an area over there to sit if you need to relax, we're trying to keep the hallways clear, can you please move over there?" I'd have happily moved. Instead I got "GET UP, YOU CAN'T SIT THERE!" screamed at me and while it got me up, it also put me in a foul mood for a bit after that.

    I get these people are volunteers but the bad apples need to be removed from their position if they're causing issues. If a safety team member EVER puts their hands on a con goer and uses physical force for anything but a true safety/security reason (I'm talking good enough to call the cops for), they should be immediately removed. It's harsh, but not as harsh as using unnecessary force, and it should NEVER be acceptable.

    Only other thing is, make sure that safety works with panel operators instead of just going off their own ideas. Safety got onto a few people during the Chess panel for doing things I asked participants to do (like standing off to the side to be chosen as pieces) and finally backed down after I told them I was doing it purposefully. It wasn't a safety or security issue, they weren't in anyone's way, and sure as hell weren't blocking anything to become a fire hazard, but a green shirt started yelling at them with no prior warning to go sit back down.
    I agree fully. After reading all the posts by people, I'm actually more disappointed with how often this issue has presented itself, and even more upset by how it is being resolved (the: "WARNING: This person will be LOUD at times and will be enforcing San Japan convention rules" is not gonna guarantee that the security won't be 1) Rude, 2) Aggressive; pushing people and stealing necessary canes, or 3) Abusing their power). You've already had a green shirt in here claiming how other green shirts abused their power and two - oops, missed one - I mean three panel hosts complain about them too.

    Going back to my previous post: "as always, it also depends on the person; each member of the security was different (obviously) and would act accordingly. Not all of them would be rude, but I, personally, seemed to only run into the rude ones :/ " So, with this in mind, I'm not attacking anyone specifically, especially the green shirts that were patient, calm, and did their jobs. Please don't get upset if it seems like I'm pointing out the green shirts and saying they were all bad, because I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that some of the green shirts were terrible and that it seems like everyone's opinions and complaints about them have become jokes to those who should be taking them seriously. And that is my opinion.
    Last edited by Catwoman; 08-11-2011 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Another panel host complained

  16. #56
    The Bald Voice From Above Proz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catwoman View Post
    (the: "WARNING: This person will be LOUD at times and will be enforcing San Japan convention rules"
    It was an idea that has gotten backlash. Scrapping it.

    I've already had several talks on Sven and I am putting heavy heat on him for SJ5 that a few bad apples in the safety dept. is bad impression on that dept. and on the rest of the convention. I'm not going to be throwing him in the oven but there will be changes made on reminder of the rules and behavior pre-con.
    In Charge Of The Chaos

  17. #57
    Past 10 Posts Catwoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proz View Post
    It was an idea that has gotten backlash. Scrapping it.

    I've already had several talks on Sven and I am putting heavy heat on him for SJ5 that a few bad apples in the safety dept. is bad impression on that dept. and on the rest of the convention. I'm not going to be throwing him in the oven but there will be changes made on reminder of the rules and behavior pre-con.
    Thank you.

  18. #58

    Angry

    <i> If the attendees were fully compliant on the rules too then we'd all be mellow. If posting signs and posting the rules in the program book were good enough, they wouldn't have to use their raised voices but we've learned that the majority don't pay attention. It gets quite blurred on what is doing their job to enforce the rules and what is conveyed as being rude.</i

    But none of this explains why Safety staff was harassing people who WERE following the rules. If people are lined up against a wall, why are you yelling at them to line up against the wall? If one person isn't complying why not speak to that person instead of yelling at everyone in a rude way? Obviously doing the latter causes a lot of bad feeling among attendees and an attitude against safety staff that ultimately undermines the safety of the con.

    Saying that there's nothing wrong with being LOUD just implies that nothing a staff person could do or say would be wrong because it ignores the content of the message and dismisses all complaints as "misreadings" of staff rudeness, when, in fact there was a lot of unacceptable behavior including potentially legally actionable actions of shoving, pushing, harassment, and disability discrimination. The people in charge need to give indications that they take these things seriously.

  19. #59
    The Bald Voice From Above Proz's Avatar
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    I have a good [possible] solution for next year:

    Next year, all Safety people will be assigned a number. This number will be on their shirts, front & back. It will be permanent marker so it can't be removed. It will be quite large & noticeable.

    If you have an issue with a Safety person, you can then report this person by their assigned number to the right people. We would have a log of each assigned number and their name. This way people can tell us who've they had problems with specifically and we'll know who are the bad apples instead of just telling us that all of them were bad people (which they weren't).
    In Charge Of The Chaos

  20. #60
    Amazon muscle lattin12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proz View Post
    I have a good [possible] solution for next year:

    Next year, all Safety people will be assigned a number. This number will be on their shirts, front & back. It will be permanent marker so it can't be removed. It will be quite large & noticeable.

    If you have an issue with a Safety person, you can then report this person by their assigned number to the right people. We would have a log of each assigned number and their name. This way people can tell us who've they had problems with specifically and we'll know who are the bad apples instead of just telling us that all of them were bad people (which they weren't).
    I really really like this solution Proz
    crazy things have happened and were still here....
    SJ 7:Cana (Fairytail)= 100%
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    Katara (Avatar the Last Airbender)= 100%

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