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Thread: Formal Dance Masquerade Feedback

  1. #21
    Past 10 Posts MissMarquin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindtailor View Post
    I know we allowed several people in with actual dress boots. We were actually pretty lenient with footwear this year, if you weren't wearing sneakers.

    And for those people just learning to sew - if your sewing skills aren't that great and what you've made doesn't look formal, then a formal Masquerade Ball isn't the place to try and show off your newest project. You have lots of options if you can't afford much - go to the thrift store, wear an old prom outfit, wear a dress shirt and slacks or a nice dress (most people have these for job interviews and such). It just needs to be formalwear.

    This is ridiculous. I didn't attend, but you're basically saying that, either dish out hundreds of dollars for a nice dress, OR, make your own! Oh, but don't even bother if you can't properly sew. I'm sorry, a messed up hem is the LEAST of your worries. I know that you are trying to uphold a standard, but turning people away because they make a dress out of broadcloth is crossing the line. Some people can't afford nice satins or velvets. It's not fair to punish them,

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MissMarquin View Post
    This is ridiculous. I didn't attend, but you're basically saying that, either dish out hundreds of dollars for a nice dress, OR, make your own! Oh, but don't even bother if you can't properly sew. I'm sorry, a messed up hem is the LEAST of your worries. I know that you are trying to uphold a standard, but turning people away because they make a dress out of broadcloth is crossing the line. Some people can't afford nice satins or velvets. It's not fair to punish them,
    I didn't wanna be the first to post this, given the flak you can get if you're not a weeb, but I wholeheartedly second this in the interest of fairness.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Sebastian View Post
    I didn't wanna be the first to post this, given the flak you can get if you're not a weeb, but I wholeheartedly second this in the interest of fairness.
    Same here, MissMarquin makes a very valid point. It just seems needlessly elitist.
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  4. #24
    ZOMBIE Panelist RedeadDie's Avatar
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    Most poly satin blends I've seen at fabric stores are an average of $2 a yard where as broadcloth has usually run $5-$10 a yard for me. Just want to make a point how much fabrics cost.

    Also, my sister got her fancy dress for the dance from the thrift store for only under $10 and it was approved to be worn.

    The only time myself and my friends ever saw people not approved were people wearing flip flops, sneakers, or dresses that only reached the thigh. To me, those accessories/dresses are clubbing attire than a formal event attire. Other than that, they did seem to bend the rules and approved a lot of people they saw in line while I was waiting. I think an average of 98% or even more than that were allowed into the event. Again, I'm just stating from what my friends and I saw.

    Another good point! Thrift stores sell very nice and formal shoes for about $3-5. DSW and Payless shoe stores also have lovely formal shoes every so often in clearance that run $10-$20. I even got a lovely pair of black heels at DSW shoes for about $6. If you need a cheap mask or just a fancy one to rent, Cherry's Costumes on Blanco has a TON of masks to choose from. They average from $1-60 if purchase and the rentals are a lot cheaper than purchasing them.
    Last edited by RedeadDie; 08-10-2011 at 07:51 PM.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RedeadDie View Post
    Most poly satin blends I've seen at fabric stores are an average of $2 a yard where as broadcloth has usually run $5-$10 a yard for me.

    Just want to make a point how much fabrics cost. Also, my sister got her fancy dress for the dance from the thrift store for only under $10 and it was approved to be worn.

    The only time myself and my friends ever saw people not approved were people wearing flip flops, sneakers, or dresses that only reached the thigh. To me, those accessories/dresses are clubbing attire than a formal event attire. Other than that, they did seem to bend the rules and approved a lot of people they saw in line while I was waiting.

    Another good point! Thrift stores sell very nice and formal shoes for about $3-5. D&W and Payless shoe stores also have lovely formal shoes every so often in clearance that run $10-$20. I even got a lovely pair of black heels at D&W shoes for about $6.
    Your missing the point. We were saying to turn someone away after they spent hours making their formal garment to be turned away or using a material they didn't like is VERY elitist and down right mean. Reminds me of the bullies back in grade school TBH.

    My garb needed the boots to look great. The Shoes would have detracted and made the character less steampunk and more Gentleman from the 19th century

    I find it rather funny the MEK is starting to show its true colors as we are holding them accountable for their snooty behavior.

  6. #26
    ZOMBIE Panelist RedeadDie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitephoenix View Post
    Your missing the point. We were saying to turn someone away after they spent hours making their formal garment to be turned away or using a material they didn't like is VERY elitist and down right mean. Reminds me of the bullies back in grade school TBH.

    My garb needed the boots to look great. The Shoes would have detracted and made the character less steampunk and more Gentleman from the 19th century

    I find it rather funny the MEK is starting to show its true colors as we are holding them accountable for their snooty behavior.
    Ok, let me explain what my cosplay was made out of. It was simple twill, nothing to fancy from broadcloth, but I was still let in. I also was worried about the cosplay boots I made for the event and posted a picture of it ahead of time on the con site. Even though they were made for a male in Victorian type attire, they stated they weren't formal enough. It was a simple fix and all I had to do was find a different pair of boots. So yes, I do understand the point because I asked ahead of time about it. I even brought a full back-up outfit incase mine was disaproved.

    Actually, I don't think there was a ton of people who were kicked out of line because of what they made.

    I think the mass majority adhered to the rules rather well and were not bothered by it. (Except for just a select few.) It's mainly about respecting others who did their best to adhere to the rules and the majority felt rather happy they were able to tribute to the formal(ness) of the event. Because that was a purpose correct?

    I really hate it when people jump to the conclusion people are being elitist because they were turned away. Please be a lot kinder with your wording and jumping to things before really knowing the people.
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  7. #27
    Past 10 Posts MissMarquin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedeadDie View Post
    Most poly satin blends I've seen at fabric stores are an average of $2 a yard where as broadcloth has usually run $5-$10 a yard for me. Just want to make a point how much fabrics cost.

    Also, my sister got her fancy dress for the dance from the thrift store for only under $10 and it was approved to be worn.

    The only time myself and my friends ever saw people not approved were people wearing flip flops, sneakers, or dresses that only reached the thigh. To me, those accessories/dresses are clubbing attire than a formal event attire. Other than that, they did seem to bend the rules and approved a lot of people they saw in line while I was waiting. I think an average of 98% or even more than that were allowed into the event. Again, I'm just stating from what my friends and I saw.

    Another good point! Thrift stores sell very nice and formal shoes for about $3-5. DSW and Payless shoe stores also have lovely formal shoes every so often in clearance that run $10-$20. I even got a lovely pair of black heels at DSW shoes for about $6. If you need a cheap mask or just a fancy one to rent, Cherry's Costumes on Blanco has a TON of masks to choose from. They average from $1-60 if purchase and the rentals are a lot cheaper than purchasing them.
    I'm not saying that people were turned away-- it's just the way that they wrote the rules. I think it sounded extremely elitist, regardless of whether or not they fell through. How many people opted NOT to try and even go to the masquerade after reading the conditions that apply? It's not fair to THOSE people.

    Also, I'm glad you can be thrifty. Some can't, and that's the rub. Satin blends where I live run $7+ a yard. Velvet? $14+. Brodacloth? $1.99. Which one am I going to choose?

    And, being an employee of Payless, let me say one thing-- they do not have shoes for big feeted people. It's hard enough to find HEELS that fit me, let alone cheap ones.

    All in all, sometimes, it just can't be done. BUT, my post wasn't about being thrifty, it was about the ABSURD conditions that they were trying to uphold-- regardless of whether or not they did. No doubt that there were many people who opted to not even try after reading the bit that I did.

  8. #28
    ZOMBIE Panelist RedeadDie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMarquin View Post
    I'm not saying that people were turned away-- it's just the way that they wrote the rules. I think it sounded extremely elitist, regardless of whether or not they fell through. How many people opted NOT to try and even go to the masquerade after reading the conditions that apply? It's not fair to THOSE people.

    Also, I'm glad you can be thrifty. Some can't, and that's the rub. Satin blends where I live run $7+ a yard. Velvet? $14+. Brodacloth? $1.99. Which one am I going to choose?

    And, being an employee of Payless, let me say one thing-- they do not have shoes for big feeted people. It's hard enough to find HEELS that fit me, let alone cheap ones.

    All in all, sometimes, it just can't be done. BUT, my post wasn't about being thrifty, it was about the ABSURD conditions that they were trying to uphold-- regardless of whether or not they did. No doubt that there were many people who opted to not even try after reading the bit that I did.
    Ok, I see your opinion and respect it. I still disagree with some bits you have stated, but I shall not argue them.

    Some people might agree or disagree with what either of us have stated here, but at least we have given our feedback and suggestions such as what the thread wanted. Lets say we leave it at that instead of this turning ugly, ok?
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  9. #29
    Project:Tasukete! Kuri's Avatar
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    Unless you go to a thrift store, or go to a retail store with a sale going on, poly-satin blends go for between $7 and $15(bridal satin). Thrift stores won't always have that EXACT color you're looking for - of course, neither will retail stores, but they'll generally be closer.

    Turning someone away for the fabric of the material - especially if the outfit is within the rules and looks FANTASTIC - is kind of silly.

    I was helping to staff the Masquerade at the beginning, before joining in the dance, and I can honestly say the only people who were turned away were those with improper footwear, and those whose outfits were OBVIOUSLY not formal enough for the event(khaki shorts, an SJ shirt, and a tie? Lol). At least 95% of those who made it to the door were let in, I think, and only a few were taken out of the line beforehand for improper attire.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MissMarquin View Post
    This is ridiculous. I didn't attend, but you're basically saying that, either dish out hundreds of dollars for a nice dress, OR, make your own! Oh, but don't even bother if you can't properly sew. I'm sorry, a messed up hem is the LEAST of your worries. I know that you are trying to uphold a standard, but turning people away because they make a dress out of broadcloth is crossing the line. Some people can't afford nice satins or velvets. It's not fair to punish them,
    So what would you prefer we base our judgment on? Where do we draw the line? Intent? We can't read minds. Should we do what other masquerades do and let everyone in, then have people ***** about how the "formal dance" isn't formal enough? All people had to do was wear decent shoes, slacks, and a button-down shirt, or a skirt longer than the knee and flats or heels. We didn't demand tuxes and ballgowns, hell, we didn't even require a tucked in shirt.

    It's irritating as hell when people assume we kick people out because we're "elitist." Why would we care? We're all at an anime convention, everyone here is a nerd; it's too late to worry about being elite. We only kicked people out because by letting those 15-20 people who want to break the rules in we sour the experience for the 750-1000 people who DID follow the rules. The rules were set, and clarified, and reclarified, and even then we still let people in if they were making a good faith effort that happened to cross the line. And anyone who says they were "almost kicked out" for wearing dress boots is either mistaken or plain lying, no one was even considered to be removed because of dress boots. Only 2 people were "almost kicked out," and they were both for skirt length, and both were allowed in. Everyone else was either in or out, and the "outs" were maybe 15 people.

    We don't get paid for this - it's a hell of a lot of time and effort - our only goal is for people to have fun. Most of us didn't even have time to dance because we were running around trying to get so many people in and out safely. If 15 people have to be kicked out in order for 1000 to have a good time, so be it. I'd rather we were known as the *******s that kicked 15 self-entitled people out than the wimps who let people water down the experience for everyone.

  11. #31
    Past 10 Posts MissMarquin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJeffington View Post
    So what would you prefer we base our judgment on? Where do we draw the line? Intent? We can't read minds. Should we do what other masquerades do and let everyone in, then have people ***** about how the "formal dance" isn't formal enough? All people had to do was wear decent shoes, slacks, and a button-down shirt, or a skirt longer than the knee and flats or heels. We didn't demand tuxes and ballgowns, hell, we didn't even require a tucked in shirt.

    It's irritating as hell when people assume we kick people out because we're "elitist." Why would we care? We're all at an anime convention, everyone here is a nerd; it's too late to worry about being elite. We only kicked people out because by letting those 15-20 people who want to break the rules in we sour the experience for the 750-1000 people who DID follow the rules. The rules were set, and clarified, and reclarified, and even then we still let people in if they were making a good faith effort that happened to cross the line. And anyone who says they were "almost kicked out" for wearing dress boots is either mistaken or plain lying, no one was even considered to be removed because of dress boots. Only 2 people were "almost kicked out," and they were both for skirt length, and both were allowed in. Everyone else was either in or out, and the "outs" were maybe 15 people.

    We don't get paid for this - it's a hell of a lot of time and effort - our only goal is for people to have fun. Most of us didn't even have time to dance because we were running around trying to get so many people in and out safely. If 15 people have to be kicked out in order for 1000 to have a good time, so be it. I'd rather we were known as the *******s that kicked 15 self-entitled people out than the wimps who let people water down the experience for everyone.
    You labled this as 'Semi-formal'. And from what I could tell, it was much more formal than semi-formal.

    I never said you kicked out people who didn't deserve to not be let in. I was merely commenting on the original written conditions. That is all.

    I understand that it is formal. I do not understand how a dress made of non-satin or velvet is not formal. I ALSO understand that you did not turn away people from this at the door, but in the written conditions, it was EXTREMELY Elitist sounding, and quite ridiculous. No doubt the written rules themselves turned down more people than you ever did. THAT is what I disagree with.

  12. #32
    Past 10 Posts MissMarquin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuri View Post
    Unless you go to a thrift store, or go to a retail store with a sale going on, poly-satin blends go for between $7 and $15(bridal satin). Thrift stores won't always have that EXACT color you're looking for - of course, neither will retail stores, but they'll generally be closer.

    Turning someone away for the fabric of the material - especially if the outfit is within the rules and looks FANTASTIC - is kind of silly.

    I was helping to staff the Masquerade at the beginning, before joining in the dance, and I can honestly say the only people who were turned away were those with improper footwear, and those whose outfits were OBVIOUSLY not formal enough for the event(khaki shorts, an SJ shirt, and a tie? Lol). At least 95% of those who made it to the door were let in, I think, and only a few were taken out of the line beforehand for improper attire.
    I merely disagree with the written rules that were posted. That is all.

  13. #33
    Semi-Regular mindtailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMarquin View Post
    This is ridiculous. I didn't attend, but you're basically saying that, either dish out hundreds of dollars for a nice dress, OR, make your own! Oh, but don't even bother if you can't properly sew.
    This is absolutely not what I'm saying, and you're missing the point. In the post just before this, I stated that people with limited means have a lot of options to get something that looks nice and is appropriate for a formal ball. Thrift stores, clearance racks, sales at stores, borrowing outfits from friends...

    If your outfit is obviously not finished, is unintentionally crumpled, or otherwise looks poorly made, it isn't formal and is not acceptable for a formal ball. Period. If you hand-sewed your first ever outfit for the masquerade and it's well done, great! If it's coming apart at the seams, not so much. I'm not saying this to be elitist or to disparage people that sew their own outfits, but to establish a level of formality that the event demands. If your fancy prom dress or suit is blood-splattered or looks like it was found on a freeway, that isn't formal either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitephoenix View Post
    Your missing the point. We were saying to turn someone away after they spent hours making their formal garment to be turned away or using a material they didn't like is VERY elitist and down right mean. Reminds me of the bullies back in grade school TBH.
    We didn't turn people away for using material we didn't like, and to say so is a blatant falsehood. We even let people in with dresses made of broadcloth and the like because they looked nice with the rest of their outfit. We're not going to sneer at you if you didn't make your dress out of taffeta or chiffon. We're not going to give you nasty looks if you made your suit coat out of twill instead of fine wool suiting. Those suggestions for fabrics and the like are guidelines to help people figure out what is and isn't formal, because some people just don't know. I'll make sure to emphasize that they're guidelines in the rules next year, because I didn't put it in there just to sound snotty.

  14. #34
    ZOMBIE Panelist RedeadDie's Avatar
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    If you make your dress out of just taffeta or chiffon would that be ok?

    Ok, sorry, just being silly now. But again, I'd like to state mine was made out of twill and not the average kind of suiting material, yet it still looked formal.
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  15. #35
    Head of Info Desk Eddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiBritt View Post

    From what I understand we only turned away maybe 15-20 people at most from that entire line.
    I heard stories / rumor of a young boy being turned away for wearing sneakers even though he was dressed to the nines yet the rest of his family got in okay..

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddo View Post
    I heard stories / rumor of a young boy being turned away for wearing sneakers even though he was dressed to the nines yet the rest of his family got in okay..
    They got stopped by someone else while the main checkers were further down the line. As soon as we got back to the front and saw the issue, we let them in right away.

  17. #37
    Past 10 Posts MissMarquin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindtailor View Post
    This is absolutely not what I'm saying, and you're missing the point. In the post just before this, I stated that people with limited means have a lot of options to get something that looks nice and is appropriate for a formal ball. Thrift stores, clearance racks, sales at stores, borrowing outfits from friends...

    If your outfit is obviously not finished, is unintentionally crumpled, or otherwise looks poorly made, it isn't formal and is not acceptable for a formal ball. Period. If you hand-sewed your first ever outfit for the masquerade and it's well done, great! If it's coming apart at the seams, not so much. I'm not saying this to be elitist or to disparage people that sew their own outfits, but to establish a level of formality that the event demands. If your fancy prom dress or suit is blood-splattered or looks like it was found on a freeway, that isn't formal either.



    We didn't turn people away for using material we didn't like, and to say so is a blatant falsehood. We even let people in with dresses made of broadcloth and the like because they looked nice with the rest of their outfit. We're not going to sneer at you if you didn't make your dress out of taffeta or chiffon. We're not going to give you nasty looks if you made your suit coat out of twill instead of fine wool suiting. Those suggestions for fabrics and the like are guidelines to help people figure out what is and isn't formal, because some people just don't know. I'll make sure to emphasize that they're guidelines in the rules next year, because I didn't put it in there just to sound snotty.
    And you are missing my point. While you may have not turned away people at the door due to the fabric type, the rules and conditions that were posted in the forum itself dictate what is acceptable, and what is not. I realize that you were lax on the rules in person, but the only reason I did not attend personally, was because I didn't feel my own outfit would have fit up to your supposed standards.

    'For example, if your dress is a nice cut and of very nice-looking fabric (satin, taffeta, velvet, etc.) but ends just above your knee, we will probably let you in. If your dress is the same length but obviously made out of cheapo fabric (muslin, broadcloth, anything that's fraying, has runs or loose threads) and/or is constructed poorly, we probably won't let you in.'

    That, right there. That's what was written in the rules, and THAT is what I disagree with. I'm glad that you weren't that snuffy, but like I said, I'm sure that the rules written turned away more people than you.

    Next time, don't write your rules to be so... snarky. End of story.

  18. #38
    Semi-Regular mindtailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMarquin View Post
    That, right there. That's what was written in the rules, and THAT is what I disagree with. I'm glad that you weren't that snuffy, but like I said, I'm sure that the rules written turned away more people than you.

    Next time, don't write your rules to be so... snarky. End of story.
    Like I said, the wording will be taken into consideration for next year. Edits to this year's rules were made based on the large number of questions asked in the forums and through email, and were based on what we learned from the SJ3 masquerade. Obviously, next year's rules will be based on what we learned this year.

  19. #39
    Past 10 Posts MissMarquin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindtailor View Post
    Like I said, the wording will be taken into consideration for next year. Edits to this year's rules were made based on the large number of questions asked in the forums and through email, and were based on what we learned from the SJ3 masquerade. Obviously, next year's rules will be based on what we learned this year.
    And, that's all I ask. I only had a problem with the written rules. I'm sorry if I seemed like I was attacking you, I wasn't. It was just worded horrendously.

  20. #40
    And anyone who says they were "almost kicked out" for wearing dress boots is either mistaken or plain lying, no one was even considered to be removed because of dress boots.
    I love love being called a liar. /sarcasm

    I heard them when they stood next to me going "ehhh..." then debate for 5 seconds about my boots then getting the OK. I'm sure My friend in front of me can validate that along with his girlfriend.

    Make sure your not insulting the integrity of your guests MEK. Google Cache does saves these posts incase you edit them to hide your snooty attitude. I don't put it past you based on your behavior in this thread.

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